[Mr. Retro]

Now, we have a large variety of political groups here on SOL, and I'd like to discuss what government with you guys. Now, allow me to start up some conversation about this topic.

I personally believe democracy to be corrupted by corporatism at this time. More and more corporations are gaining power and abusing it in ways they should not, creating divides in the populace. I have nothing against the free market, but I do not think that the corporations should have the amount of political power they currently do, or have in the past (a certain South American country had its government overthrown by the United States because they wouldn't allow a banana corporation to operate in their borders the way they were). I personally feel that a sort of fascism/democracy mix would be best for the Western World, where the corporations are state-owned at least to a degree, but the leaders are elected and decisions are given to the people. This would keep corporations from becoming too powerful without infringing on rights. Obviously, I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

[???????]

I may like economics, but I am in no way a big fan of politics.

Hell no to a fascist/democratic government. It would never work. Those two types of governments are opposites of eachother. Also, unless I'm mistaken, what you speak of is a quality of a command economy. Wasn't a law that attempted to do just what you were suggesting shot down recently in the US because it violated something within the Constitution?

I'll be honest, I don't really pay attention to how corporations affect democracy, but I'm assuming what you speak mostly of now is how they're able to throw a ton of cash in a politician's direction to make them more popular with the people. In that case, the problem lies with the people being too damn stupid to do research and not be easily swayed.

This post has been edited by ???????: 08 February 2010 - 08:34 AM

[Mr. Retro]

Actually, I gave an example on how corporations are much too powerful, but I'll reiterate; corporations have far too much influence in political decisions. That's all I can really say without digging up lots of things from past years.

As for the democracy/fascism fusion, it's not impossible. Fascism is built on the concept of nationalism, and the United States is VERY nationalist, but they would never sacrifice democracy. It's what the nation was built on. You could implement a lot of fascist policies, though, and some are already in place. The FBI and CIA already kinda fill the same role as the SS or the Stazzi. I'd get into a deeper discourse about this, but I actually really have to go.

[Red]

Marx forgets that the Senate is also very easily bought off.

[???????]

I didn't forget because I never paid enough attention to know.

This post has been edited by ???????: 08 February 2010 - 11:42 PM

[Mr. Retro]

As I've shown in a past topic, more and more people are agreeing with me, and are going for actually FULL Fascist governments. I just hope people realize Fascist doesn't necessarily mean more restrictive to an insane degree.

[???????]

A full fascist government, you say? You know, instead of saying that a fascist government would be good and can work, how's about actually explaining just how you'd like it to work, how it'd be better than the type we have now, and how it wouldn't violate rights. Honestly, it's as if you're really expecting people to just get what you're talking about.

[Sway]

Just FYI you're talking about democratic socialism, not a "fascism/democracy mix." Fascism is a very loaded word, and implies corporate control of the people rather than vice-versa. It actually does mean it's restrictive to an insane degree.

I'd be all for some democratic socialism though, honestly. At least some fucking universal health care.

[SoDi]

Amen to that. I believe that at this time in the USA, our folks in office receive awesome health care as a job benefit (and it extends to after they leave office, as well). Maybe if they were stuck with the same care options the rest of us have to live with, they'd actually give a darn and vote appropriately. My county tried to submit a legal-something-or-other to that effect, but it never even made it past state level to be heard out. It gave me heart that my neighbors think like that, though. ...Hope folks don't mind me sticking my nose in here, it's just a real sticky wicket for me.

[Sway]

By all means, feel free to say whatever you want on these forums. Even that I'm a huge douche bag, if you're so inclined.

[Desertbabe]

I am no way a socialist but I can agree that the big corporations are mostly running the show. They first got their debut in the 1980s where they have their "spokes model" Reagan to speak for them. Soon as he was president, they knew they've won.

Now we have Obama and the corporations are getting every bit they can take. It's over for them. They should not have political power or any influence on economic policies whatsoever.

[Mr. Retro]

Actually, as Benito Mussoulini said, the beauty of Fascism is that it's whatever the fuck you need it to be the appease the people most at the time.

[Red]

Democratic Socialist government would be nice. Mostly for the health care, but yeah. Just today me and my friend were discussing how fucking moronic arguments against universal health care are.

[NiGHTS Noob]

Oh, you know, except for the fact that there hasn't been a universal health-care plan yet that has worked well.

Canada's health-care system is a shithole for example.

Could universal health-care work? Possibly, but much like recent Sonic games I'm not going to get my hopes up until I actually see it in action. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to bite for current universal health-care ideas because they suck ass. I don't want to be waiting a year to see a doctor because absolutely everybody has a chance to go see one, and not every doctor will be able to perform because the government won't pay them all, and all that other bullshit that goes down with it.

[Sway]

NiGHTS Noob, on 11 February 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

Oh, you know, except for the fact that there hasn't been a universal health-care plan yet that has worked well.

... Yes there has?

Quote

Canada's health-care system is a shithole for example.

... No?

[NiGHTS Noob]

Yes, because in every case of free health-care there's one of two big problems.

Either the health-care sucks ass and they can't do anything about it because it's the only one available, or people are paying taxes out the wazoo and have no say in whether they want to pay that much for health-care or not because it's federal taxes.

[Sway]

God, I'm so sick of arguing this, so quickly: Nope. Canada has quite good health care, and for every anecdote about wait times, there are ten about a perfectly easy and quick trip where no insurance forms even needed to be filled out. Wait times are comparable or actually better than in the U.S. in a lot of cases, and this is counting the fact that Canada allows 100% of the population to NOT FUCKING DIE instead of only those who can afford it. If something is urgent, you get in right away. Other countries (take Scandinavia) do it even better. Americans pay the most per capita for health care vs. any other first world nation. We pay more than double the next closest, Australia, which also has UHC.

U.S. health care is fucked and we have the solution and we're too stupid to use it because insurance is the biggest industry in the country. Your arguments are total bullshit, man. I'd cite things but like I said I really can't be bothered to argue this yet again -- believe what you want.

[Mr. Retro]

As a Canadian I must point out Sway is entirely correct. Universal healthcare really is just infinitely better than insurance. However, prescription prices are fucking savage.

[Sway]

Even so, the U.S. still has an average cost of about $730 per year per person for prescription drugs, and in Canada that number is about $510. People in the U.S. close to the border drive to Canada for prescription drugs. The U.S. has actually has explicit laws that prohibit Medicare or Medicaid from negotiating drug prices. And 40% of adults with serious health problems in the U.S. do not refill their prescriptions due to cost (the 20% in Canada is still too high).

[KennEH!]

I do agree with NiGTHS on the shitload of taxes. The only reason you need to wait for hours to get health services is when you go to a clinic, which is every time you get an ailment and a doctor apointment is father than a month away. Doctors are to busy to schedule extra stuff.